Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This is Aaron, this is Michael, and this is the Nathan's and Roncast.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Someday I'll get used to that.
[00:00:08] Speaker A: Should we try it again?
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Cue the music.
Are they still listening to us?
[00:00:24] Speaker A: I hope so.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: Oh, man.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: This is episode number two.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
And it's for the song dr. Jolson.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: Dr. Jolson's bag this song.
[00:00:37] Speaker C: I want.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: To say it's near to my heart.
[00:00:39] Speaker C: I created it.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: I don't want it to sound like it's because the song itself is near to my heart. But the story is that I grew up with a family that was always talking about the great Dr. Morris Jolson. But before we get into the story behind the song and by the way, our guest today is Sally heyman. Who is Dr. Jolson's granddaughter.
We're looking forward to telling you about Sally in a moment, but let's talk about the song itself.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Well, just to get the metrics out there, I have the album in front of me, and if you have a copy, you can actually look at the album artwork. And for track two, I played a bunch of stuff because, again, I like to torture myself just a little bit. In the studio, we try to make and craft something beautiful on the album, which is a little different than the live recording, but we try to present something that is true to what we do live so that when you hear us live, it's not like, oh, I miss what I hear on the album. That's a really important thing. And I think that's something that through time you learn to do. And hopefully we've learned to do that by our fourth album. But I played some cello on this. About time, right? And then I played electric bass for that extra.
[00:01:51] Speaker D: Oomph.
[00:01:51] Speaker B: Did some harmony vocals on this. Ooze. And Oz. Some with words. Hey, I did some snare drum on it. Just a little bit of brushwork. I'm only good with brushes. It's the only thing I can do. Aaron, you did the lead vocals. You wrote the song. Of course. Just love anything Aaron writes. And anytime we're putting stuff together on albums, I love the collection of music because we have co writes, we have the songs. I write that Aaron approves because I want that approval, not because Aaron demands it. So thank you for being I approve. Oh, thank you.
And then we have ambient guitars by Gregory Hugh Brady, and he did some Shaker work. And then we had Adam Pasqual on drums. In fact, he played our CD release.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: Concert just last night.
[00:02:33] Speaker B: And on this track he did Gembe. That's pretty much well, I guess we could talk about the song.
[00:02:40] Speaker A: So Dr. Morris Jolson was an immigrant from Eastern Europe, along with many other immigrants that came to Patterson, New Jersey, at the end of the last century. In the late 18 hundreds is what I'm trying to say.
[00:02:57] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:02:58] Speaker A: In early 19 hundreds. And they created a community of immigrants that settled in Patterson. And I came from that community, I'm I guess what a third generation American. My grandfather served in World War II and they lived on the campus of Rutgers University just after the war. Their home, their first home was in Patterson, where my grandmother had grown up. Her father had a silk mill in Patterson. Patterson is known as Silk City. There were a lot of silk mills, and most of those buildings are still there today. It's a fascinating place. It's changed a lot. But there's very proud tradition of Jewish Patterson. A lot of the people are still alive, still remembering it fondly. And one of the people that made up the fabric of life in Patterson was Dr. Morris Jolson, who famously delivered 20,000 babies during his lifetime.
[00:03:57] Speaker B: I know a long life leads to big numbers of anything, but when it involves delivering babies and just bringing humans into this world in a healthy way, and also knowing that he donated his time when people couldn't pay, did house calls, made sure that those babies were taken care of. Remarkable person. I mean, just hearing about him from Sally Heyman was just from being a little girl and hanging out with Dr. Jolson as a kid. What an amazing person.
[00:04:30] Speaker A: That's right. He delivered my grandmother, who's still living at age 97.
He delivered my mother and many other members of my family on that side. And he delivered my grandfather, my late grandfather, on the other side of the family, my dad's late father. You could tell just how small a community it was in Patterson. But this song is also a celebration of the role that a family doctor plays in a community. It's a little bit like old Joe's chair. Our song about a barber, which celebrates the role that a barber plays. I wrote that with Phil Henry. But we performed it. We recorded it, you and me.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: I think I remember.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: Yes, we played it almost every show, so it's got that kind of similarity. But I think musically it's very different.
But it just talks about this fellow. And the story is fictional, but it's cobbled together from a number of historical elements.
There is a little essay that Dr. Jolson had written. I went on Facebook and asked people to tell me their memories of Dr. Jolson. And still, even today, 60 or so, 65 years after his passing, people still have amazing, vivid memories of how Dr. Jolson gave them candy, came over in a snowstorm, and I just took these little details and stitched them together into a song that I hope it feels real, even if there may not have been this exact thing that happened. Certainly it was realistic to who the Men was.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: I mean, when I first heard it, I felt like I was in the story and back in time. So if I'm any know, I felt that, you know, this song has in the music side of things. The Aaron Nathan's signature, finger picking, finger style guitar, which I just like every album we do, should have a ballad by Aaron Nathan's that includes his beautiful melodies, fingerstyle guitar. And I've got kind of an approach that I like to do with my cello accompaniments, which in the intro, there's like a long note stating a little bit of the melody. Say, hey, I'm a cello. So we'll play a little bit of that soon.
[00:06:53] Speaker E: The baby's quiet. He's all swaddled in a rag.
Whatever magic potion came from Dr Jolson's.
[00:07:03] Speaker F: Bag.
[00:07:09] Speaker E: We'Re grateful, Dr Jolson, for the effort and the time I'm sorry to report that we have barely got a dime we just arrived in but now.
[00:07:23] Speaker B: That you've heard that then going on aaron will sing and play and then maybe by the chorus I'll have some long low notes.
[00:07:33] Speaker E: But my husband can't get hired.
He can't afford to heat the stove, much less get the dough to ride.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: I'll sing some harmonies on just a few lines here and there. That's something that we've developed over four albums. We never want to just be straight through. We try to just give you some emphasis with harmonies. And when you hear those harmonies, you as a listener can learn what it is. And if you want to sing along, then you have some room to sing, too. So I have a personal rule with any recording, I want to leave room for the person in the car to make up harmonies. Because there's a lot of people who sing harmonies, they don't hear melody first, they just make up a harmony. And I've known a lot of albums where there's no room. I don't want to just double the harmony that's on the album. I want to be a part of the listening experience. So if you're that type of person, I think you'll enjoy a lot of the songs here because there's room for you to sing along with us if you know the words. In fact, your daughter Lily sings along to all the songs and I love it because when she greets me, she'll sing my song or your song. When she greets you?
[00:08:37] Speaker C: She does.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: In the right key, signature, perfect pitch. Oh, it's beautiful anyway. And this song is one that she sings all around.
[00:08:47] Speaker C: It is.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: And I think one of the great things about the way that you play cello or really anything, I guess a word that's thrown around pretty easily is tasteful. But I think what people are really trying to say is that you bring a little bit of restraint to the way that you play. And I think in this song, it's more of an accompaniment role, but.
[00:09:12] Speaker C: Even.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: When you're leading, you're not blowing anybody's ears back. It's leaving enough room to leave the listener to come to the song. And I think that's the mark of a great musician.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: That's high praise from you, my friend I appreciate that.
Yeah. The only other thought I had about this song is that it's one that I think takes you in and will move you. Go through and look at the lyrics. Listen to the lyrics. I don't remember lyrics very well, but I remember the big picture. So I'll think, okay, there was a car, and if it's not a Ford, it might be a Mercedes. I might say, well, it was a Turduccan car. I have no idea. Whatever it is, I may get the general idea a little skewed, a little off, but the story is what sticks with me. And this song is one of those that you can't help but listen to those lyrics. Without any further ado, I think we should interview Sally.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: There were two things I want to say before we jump in, and one of them is the Hamilton reference that even before the musical Hamilton, there was this reference to Alexander Hamilton in Patterson because he created the raceway system there. He created hydroelectric way to take the Great falls. I call it Alexander's Falls. It's because he found a way to harness the electricity from the falls to power the mills. So that's number one. Number two is the bag itself, Dr. Jolson's Bag. What inspired the name of the song was that my late Uncle Jerry Nathan's, who founded the Jewish Historical Society of North Jersey, he archived Dr. Jolson's bag, and he famously saved the bag that was probably at the bedside when Dr. Jolson delivered Uncle Jerry into this world. And the society, recently, after we released this song, agreed to have the bag historically preserved. So let's play the interview here's Sally Heyman.
[00:11:19] Speaker C: Okay, so we're here with Sally Heyman of Palo Alto, California. Sally is one of the eldest, but not the eldest granddaughter of Dr. Morris Jolson.
Sally, welcome.
[00:11:34] Speaker F: Good to be here.
[00:11:35] Speaker C: So tell us a little bit about because we got this song called Dr. Jolson's Bag.
I didn't make up the character Dr. Jolson. He was a real person. Who was Dr. Morris Jolson?
[00:11:51] Speaker F: He was beloved by Pattersonians.
[00:11:59] Speaker G: He was 5ft tall.
[00:12:02] Speaker F: He was very sweet.
[00:12:04] Speaker G: He always carried candy and gum in his jacket pockets to give out to the kids.
[00:12:12] Speaker F: So he was a little like the Pied Piper.
And he delivered, I think, 18,000 babies.
[00:12:22] Speaker G: And.
[00:12:25] Speaker F: He was just a very warm, loving, sweet man.
[00:12:31] Speaker G: Everyone adored him, including his whole family, his kids, everyone.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: So let's kind of create some of the context here.
[00:12:39] Speaker C: So, what years do you remember when he was born and when he died?
[00:12:44] Speaker G: I was trying to figure that out. I think he was born in 1880s, but I don't remember the exact year. And he died in 1958. And he was, I believe, in his early seventy s.
And do you know.
[00:13:00] Speaker C: If he was he born in the United States?
[00:13:04] Speaker F: No, he was born in Russia, and.
[00:13:07] Speaker G: He immigrated here pretty young.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: Let's talk a little bit about Patterson.
[00:13:12] Speaker C: Because that's where three of my four grandparents were born, more or less. Well, I guess where three of my four grandparents grew up. Some of them were born there. And I know that at least one of them was delivered by Dr. Jolson, my maternal grandma, Judy, who is still alive at age 96. Patterson was basically a robust Jewish community for many decades, where people would come from the old country and settle and get settled by their relatives. Do you have many memories of your days in Patterson?
[00:13:52] Speaker G: Oh, yes, for sure.
Well, we lived across the street from the Barnard Hospital, which was where my father and Doc practiced, and also my Uncle Bob, Johnny's dad.
And.
[00:14:13] Speaker F: When I'd walk to school in.
[00:14:15] Speaker G: The morning, my dad would lean his head out of the or window and wave to me.
And one of my favorite stories about my grandfather is, especially in the winter, when it was cold, he would wait outside in his little car I think.
[00:14:29] Speaker F: It was the Plymouth, rubbing his hands.
[00:14:32] Speaker G: Because it was so cold. And he would drive me the two and a half blocks to school.
And one day my mother said to.
[00:14:42] Speaker F: Him, doc, you can't do this anymore.
[00:14:45] Speaker G: Sally's always late, and she needs to face the consequences. You can't be driving her to school every day.
[00:14:52] Speaker F: And he nodded.
[00:14:54] Speaker G: And then the next day, she walked me outside. She looked left, she looked right. He wasn't there. I rounded the first corner, and there he was, sitting in his car, rubbing his hands, waiting for me.
[00:15:09] Speaker C: He was a real family guy.
[00:15:11] Speaker G: Yes, very much so.
[00:15:14] Speaker C: As I researched this song, I saw all kinds of stories about how he did a lot more than just deliver babies.
[00:15:21] Speaker F: Right.
[00:15:23] Speaker C: Do you know much about what he did? He was kind of a community.
[00:15:26] Speaker G: I know he did a lot of house visits, and I think he in that sense, he was more like a family doctor.
[00:15:36] Speaker F: Yeah.
[00:15:38] Speaker C: I got the sense that maybe there weren't a lot of doctors serving the Jewish community in Patterson back in the day. That maybe he was kind of it for a while.
[00:15:48] Speaker G: I think over the years, there were several others, but he might have been at the forefront of it.
[00:15:54] Speaker F: I know my dad was at the.
[00:15:56] Speaker G: Very beginning of anesthesiologists there.
I also know that I've traveled all over the world and met people from Patterson who've said, I was delivered by.
[00:16:09] Speaker D: You know, I was curious if, when you were young, did he keep up the same level of house visits throughout his life? Was he able to balance all that really?
[00:16:19] Speaker G: Well, as far as I know, he continued to do the house visits. And also in the summers, we lived in a different town. We lived at the Jersey Shore in the summers in Deal. Right. And he would do house visits there. In that general area.
I don't know how people found out about him or called on him, but.
[00:16:40] Speaker C: They knew him, so he went on vacation and just worked right through it.
[00:16:46] Speaker F: Yeah.
[00:16:47] Speaker C: Oh, boy, what a devoted guy.
[00:16:49] Speaker G: Well, he hated the beach club.
[00:16:53] Speaker C: Was this the deal casino?
[00:16:55] Speaker G: Yes. Back in the day, it was the deal casino. And he would say, I don't understand it. They make you take almost all your clothes off and lie in the hot sun.
[00:17:07] Speaker C: Yeah, that's where my family hung out in the summers at the deal casino, which was not a casino, I don't think.
[00:17:14] Speaker G: Right.
[00:17:15] Speaker C: As I know. It was just a pool club.
[00:17:17] Speaker G: It was a beach club.
[00:17:18] Speaker C: Yeah, it was a beach club. Yeah. And why would you go to the beach to sit at a pool?
I don't know. I have no memories of the deal casino. You probably do.
[00:17:28] Speaker F: Yeah.
[00:17:29] Speaker G: Well, there was a beach and the ocean and a big pool.
[00:17:31] Speaker C: And a big pool. Right.
[00:17:34] Speaker G: But he didn't like it, so he probably enjoyed working.
[00:17:39] Speaker C: Mean, there's been a lot of physicians that have come through your family, right? It wasn't just doc, tell me about your father.
[00:17:50] Speaker G: My father came from a different town in New Jersey and started practicing in Patterson and then met my I guess okay.
[00:17:59] Speaker C: I guess he married into the family.
[00:18:01] Speaker G: He married into the family, and his family also came from Russia, and he was one of the first anesthesiologists. I think he was like, in the first hundred, because I think nurses did.
[00:18:14] Speaker F: It prior to that.
[00:18:17] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:18:18] Speaker G: And then my Uncle Bob was an internal medicine doctor.
So when I was a child, I.
[00:18:25] Speaker F: Wanted to be a doctor, and then.
[00:18:28] Speaker G: When I was a teenager, my dad would let me come to the or.
[00:18:31] Speaker F: And watch a few operations, and I.
[00:18:35] Speaker G: Realized that I couldn't stand the sight of blood.
[00:18:39] Speaker C: Is that why you chose to tell us a little bit about what you do for a living?
[00:18:44] Speaker G: So I'm a licensed clinical social worker, and I think from an early age, two things. One, I knew I wanted to do something that would help people, and two, I wanted to understand how families worked because we had a pretty interesting family, and I was trying to understand it.
And so once I realized that I didn't want to be a physician, even though I majored in French in college, after college, I decided to get my master's in social work.
[00:19:19] Speaker C: When you said you had an interesting family, is that something you are comfortable expanding on?
[00:19:26] Speaker G: Sure.
[00:19:26] Speaker F: Well, your typical Jewish family, everyone's talking.
[00:19:31] Speaker G: Over everyone else and interrupting and arguing, and also a lot of laughing, a.
[00:19:39] Speaker F: Lot of jokes, and just my uncles.
[00:19:43] Speaker G: Were all very funny, and my youngest uncle became a comedy writer.
[00:19:50] Speaker F: My uncle Ben, what did he write for?
[00:19:54] Speaker G: He wrote for Candid Camera.
He wrote for Loveboat and a bunch of other shows. He ended up moving to La.
But they were all funny so a.
[00:20:13] Speaker F: Lot of laughter, but also disagreements.
[00:20:18] Speaker D: It was never boring, I'm sure.
[00:20:20] Speaker G: No, it wasn't boring.
[00:20:26] Speaker D: My family is big and we always had with gatherings, you just never knew.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: Who was going to show up.
[00:20:32] Speaker D: It was kind of an open door policy. My grandfather would just say, you want to come on over and visit? And that made life really interesting. So it sounds very familiar to me.
[00:20:44] Speaker G: And yeah, we had a very open door completely, especially in Deal.
If I wanted to bring three friends for dinner at the last minute, it was just very welcoming and warm in that way.
And a little theatrical, I would say.
[00:21:02] Speaker F: Theatrical.
[00:21:03] Speaker G: Oh, my mother just theatrical. We would perform plays in the living room.
[00:21:09] Speaker D: Okay, so music, music or any music that happened?
[00:21:16] Speaker G: Well, we listened to a lot of music, all the old the albums, but nobody played music until I believe my uncle Bob started playing the guitar as an adult.
And then my brother and Johnny are both musicians and I sing in a women's.
[00:21:42] Speaker D: Oh, wow, okay, that's wonderful.
[00:21:44] Speaker C: What kind of stuff do you sing?
[00:21:47] Speaker G: Pretty broad range. Like our last performances we did Crowded Table. Do you know that song by the High Women?
[00:21:56] Speaker F: Oh, sure, it's a very cool song.
[00:21:59] Speaker G: And then some more like classical Christmas songs.
And there's a composer, Sarah Cordle, who's up in Canada, and we've done some.
[00:22:14] Speaker F: Of her music, so quite a range.
[00:22:17] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:22:18] Speaker G: Mostly older women. And at the end of each session we perform at retirement communities and assisted living facilities.
[00:22:28] Speaker C: Oh, that's wonderful.
[00:22:29] Speaker G: Yeah, it's really fun.
[00:22:31] Speaker C: Do you have any memories of there being any music on? When Doc was around.
[00:22:38] Speaker F: There was a.
[00:22:39] Speaker G: Lot of music playing, like Frank Sinatra, and there was a piano and there was all kinds of piano music that.
[00:22:46] Speaker F: We would play of the Old Blue.
[00:22:50] Speaker G: Moon, all that era music. So yes, there was music around, but I don't know if he was interested.
[00:22:57] Speaker F: In music or not.
[00:22:59] Speaker C: He was such a legend. And I'll just kind of tell you a little bit about what's kind of passed down to me just wherever I go, whenever I encounter somebody from Patterson, which is where I was born, I was, I think the last person in my family to be born at Barnard Hospital. And it was the so called well, actually, I think I might have been born at the old Barnard Hospital. Before it was turned in, they tore it down, they put up a new one and then that one closed. And that building is still there. I think it's an office park now.
But wherever I would go when Patterson would come up, people would talk about Dr. Jolson. And as I tried to do some research for the song, I was looking for information about his life. And there was the column that he wrote. I don't know what the occasion was, but it was put into the book, Jews of Patterson, which was just kind of a collection of funny stories of his.
And there are little newspaper clippings about big birthdays of his. I think one of them had a picture of you as a ten or eleven year old girl, but I couldn't find a lot of I don't think he wrote a memoir. I never really got a whole lot.
I put the word out on Facebook for the Jewish roots in Patterson group, and I got a lot of stories about him, about high points, about moments that he did something incredibly generous.
But I couldn't really get a picture of what the day to day life was for this man who must have been just spread so thin.
If he did everything that everybody says, how much time would he have left to, you know, go do something fun? I mean, I wonder whether he had time for himself since he always seemed to be giving to other people.
[00:25:19] Speaker G: Right. And I also wonder, back in that day, what did you do for fun? Or was fun even on the list?
He was a worker, and he worked hard, and then he'd come home, probably read the paper and hang out. We'd go visit him. They had a big, beautiful house on 14th Avenue.
[00:25:41] Speaker F: I loved visiting that house, and we.
[00:25:43] Speaker G: Would have dinners there, this big table.
[00:25:46] Speaker F: But he was a quiet man, and.
[00:25:49] Speaker G: I don't know if he had other Hobies or other things that he did. I think it was work and home, being with his family.
[00:25:58] Speaker C: Yeah. We recently lost my father in law, who was a doctor.
[00:26:04] Speaker G: Oh, he was? I'm so sorry.
[00:26:06] Speaker C: Thank you. He was a nephrologist kidney doctor, and he was a quiet guy, too.
And I don't know, I can picture what it is you're saying.
Maybe the parts of Dr. Jolson's life that I couldn't piece together, I couldn't find because maybe he was a man of few words.
[00:26:29] Speaker D: But do you think that because of the nature of what you see as a doctor and Sally, like you, you've got to see some surgeries, figured out what you couldn't handle and could handle. But do you think the nature of trying to help save lives and how you can't save everyone's life naturally? Just like every doctor I know, my personal childhood physician, Dr. Markowitz, is a mandolin player, musician, but he's kind of a quiet always.
[00:27:01] Speaker B: Do you think that's the nature of.
[00:27:03] Speaker D: It, or is it prone to the personality type differences of any other field?
[00:27:09] Speaker G: Well, it's an interesting question because I.
[00:27:11] Speaker F: Would say as a therapist, I feel like I give out a lot and.
[00:27:18] Speaker G: I do a lot, and it takes a psychic toll. And I'm imagining that as a physician.
[00:27:25] Speaker F: That that would be similar because you're.
[00:27:27] Speaker G: Actually sometimes trying to save someone's life and sometimes you don't. And my dad was a very quiet man, too.
[00:27:35] Speaker F: I think that takes the toll for sure.
[00:27:40] Speaker C: Do you have to build a certain remove from the world in which you live if you're exposed to I imagine that in your therapy work, there have been ups and downs, and you must have come home on certain days and just want to build a little space between you and the drama that you watched unfold. I mean, how common is that?
[00:28:08] Speaker G: Well, there are definitely some days when I come home and say, I don't want to talk.
[00:28:13] Speaker F: Um.
[00:28:16] Speaker G: I think that you need to.
[00:28:19] Speaker F: Have a certain amount of detachment, and.
[00:28:23] Speaker G: Detachment is a positive thing. It means you're firmly grounded and centered. You can attach with people, and you also have the capacity to detach.
So when you're detached, it's not that you're not caring, you're not distancing yourself.
[00:28:39] Speaker F: You're just able to step back, because.
[00:28:42] Speaker G: I think it would just eat you up otherwise.
[00:28:44] Speaker F: The stories are there's just some horrific.
[00:28:48] Speaker G: Stories and trauma that people have had to manage in their lives.
And as a therapist, you're the holding place for that.
So I think personally, it helps to have Hobies and activities and other things that are fun and I don't know.
[00:29:09] Speaker F: I know my dad and my uncles played golf.
[00:29:14] Speaker G: That was their main hobby. And then my dad played tennis when.
[00:29:17] Speaker F: He was older, but I don't think.
[00:29:19] Speaker G: They had a lot of hobbies. Maybe did some reading.
I think Bob was the exception. He was more a Renaissance man. He did some acting, he played music. He was a photographer. So he had a lot more balance in his picture.
[00:29:39] Speaker C: This beloved picture that this picture of beloved man that's been passed down. And all these funny stories about this fellow who's still treasured 60, however many years after his death. He must have seen some really rough things bring his life. And the job of a doctor is sometimes at ODS with the idea of being happy all the time, I guess, right? How do you think for sure?
Have you seen other people in the world who have kind of transcended this idea?
Any day that you see me is a bad day because you're in trouble. How does somebody bridge that gap between.
[00:30:30] Speaker G: I think some of it is your personality, some of it know your DNA, how resilient you are.
[00:30:38] Speaker C: Have there been aspects of Doc's personality that you feel like you've inherited, that you've been able to use, or that you've tried to model yourself after?
[00:30:47] Speaker G: That's a good question.
I mean, I was only ten when he died.
He, to me, was a role model of a loving person, and whenever I was around him, I just felt that emanating from him, and that's very much what I wanted to do with my own children and my grandchildren now, is to be a loving presence.
So, yes, I think that's probably that.
[00:31:18] Speaker F: Plus being a helper, are the two main things.
[00:31:24] Speaker G: I did want to comment on the I do remember multiple birthday parties that they would have in the hospital for my grandfather, and then my mother had a 100th birthday party for him.
[00:31:39] Speaker C: Really? After he passed. Like, 30 years after he passed.
[00:31:44] Speaker D: Amazing.
[00:31:45] Speaker G: And so we would say, oh, we're going to New Jersey for my grandfather's hundredth birthday. And people will go, oh, that's amazing. I'd say, no, he died 25 years ago.
But that's how powerful he was. And everybody had little buttons that they wore that had his picture on it.
He was legendary for our whole family, and everyone sat around telling stories about him.
[00:32:16] Speaker C: What was that scene like at the party? I mean, where was it? Do you remember stories that were told there?
[00:32:23] Speaker G: It was at my parents'house. They had moved to Ridgewood at that.
[00:32:27] Speaker F: Point, and it was our whole family.
[00:32:36] Speaker G: And I don't remember any specific stories. I'm sure there's so many. I'd love to see what you were reading. My mother was just completely devoted to him.
[00:32:49] Speaker F: She just adored him.
[00:32:52] Speaker C: What memories do you have of Ray, and how old were you when she died?
[00:33:00] Speaker F: So I believe I was, like, early. No, I'm trying to think.
[00:33:06] Speaker G: I think I was in my 20s.
[00:33:08] Speaker F: When she died, so she lived into her later 70s.
[00:33:14] Speaker G: She was, like, twice his size, and she had a bum leg, so she had trouble getting around.
She was also, to me, very sweet, very loving. She was very devoted to all her kids.
And my Uncle George lived with them for lived with my grandmother for quite a long time until he was, I think, in his 30s.
[00:33:46] Speaker B: Hey, last episode, we advertised our mer, which is our singular merch.
[00:33:53] Speaker A: Our mer.
[00:33:53] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:33:54] Speaker B: Yeah, our mer.
Mer. New word.
But this time, we just want to encourage everyone to open your Spotify app.
[00:34:04] Speaker A: If you have one. Yeah, if you have one, and you probably do.
[00:34:07] Speaker B: And even if you don't pay for Spotify, you can still follow us. Even if you open it up every so often. It helps us beat the algorithm, quite honestly.
And it doesn't get us paid anymore because Spotify is what it does, and it don't do much, but it gets us out there in front of people.
[00:34:26] Speaker A: Which is no small thing, by the way.
[00:34:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it does a lot because most people have Spotify. So if you can help us get our numbers up by following us, and you might be happy with what you hear, too, I think we think you'll.
[00:34:41] Speaker A: Like it, and you'll be the first to hear it. When we drop new stuff, including podcasting, I think will show up.
[00:34:48] Speaker B: It should yeah, it should show up on itunes, Spotify podcast. It'll show up on all the digital platforms that we submit it to.
In fact, we might even throw them up on Bandcamp as a separate thing to go with our albums, which we have there. So if you're part of Bandcamp and you really like to support indie artists. On bandcamp. You can buy the album there if you still use itunes like I do. I buy albums still. In fact, the last album I bought, if I look at my itunes, was by Maria Keck from Cincinnati. She's a looping flute player, singer, person, and her song Ghosts alive. And then another local artist from Kentucky, right. In Maysville, Kentucky. Evan McMillan. I bought three of his songs. And Phil Henry's Chasing Echoes. I bought that on itunes.
[00:35:41] Speaker A: That's a great album.
[00:35:42] Speaker B: Yeah. And robots and romance. I bought that, too.
[00:35:45] Speaker C: Oh, boy.
[00:35:46] Speaker B: Little did I not remember I played on Chasing Echoes. So I still buy. But if you use Spotify and want to follow us, that's going to be even better than listening 20 times. But please listen 20 times.
[00:35:59] Speaker A: So, Aaron, I think that's a good idea. Please do.
[00:36:03] Speaker B: Okay. And in light of that, let's go.
[00:36:07] Speaker A: Back to part two of our conversation with Sally.
[00:36:11] Speaker B: Heyman, that's right.
[00:36:17] Speaker C: So there's a number of family connections here. So I think you and I mentioned that you knew my mom Amy when you were younger, both growing up in Patterson.
[00:36:31] Speaker D: Amy also sings in a choir, by the way.
[00:36:34] Speaker G: Right, I know because I reconnected with her and she was telling me about that.
[00:36:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
My uncle Jerry, my great uncle Jerry, my late great uncle Jerry was the one who somehow obtained Dr. Jolson's bag and archived it for the North Jersey Jewish historical society.
Do you have any memories of that bag?
[00:36:57] Speaker G: Oh, yes, because he would carry it when we would go on house visits and deal.
But we went to Point Pleasant, I seem to remember, like, other towns around there. And he would carry his little bag.
[00:37:10] Speaker C: Even when he wasn't working?
[00:37:14] Speaker G: No, just on his house visits.
[00:37:19] Speaker C: What did he have in there?
[00:37:22] Speaker G: I think he had some syringes and bandages.
I assume he had some medications.
I just remember the black bag that.
[00:37:33] Speaker F: He would carry it, and I would.
[00:37:36] Speaker G: Get so excited that he would let.
[00:37:38] Speaker F: Me go with him.
[00:37:40] Speaker C: What was exciting about it?
[00:37:43] Speaker F: It just felt special.
[00:37:45] Speaker G: Like there was an aura about him.
[00:37:47] Speaker F: And just being with him and the two of us, it just felt really wonderful.
[00:37:55] Speaker G: I loved him very much.
[00:37:58] Speaker C: I bet.
[00:37:59] Speaker G: And I felt that from him.
[00:38:00] Speaker F: It just was very easy being with him.
[00:38:04] Speaker B: My curiosity comes out of a song.
[00:38:07] Speaker D: Because obviously I don't have any family ties to you or Aaron, but through the music, the words, the generosity. I love the line that Aaron wrote about how bake me a cake, the whole thing.
[00:38:23] Speaker B: Times are hard.
[00:38:24] Speaker D: And he's like, don't worry about like.
[00:38:26] Speaker B: I just get this idea of, like.
[00:38:27] Speaker D: Well, then don't worry about it's.
[00:38:29] Speaker B: It's okay.
[00:38:30] Speaker D: Whatever you can do, if you can do something, if you can't, it's okay. And I always got the sense that I love the idea of Hamilton staring back up. So he left some money in the song and then the know, helping, whether it's a young child or a crying these it reminds me of my grandfather, who was a podiatrist and on my mom's side. And he had a practice, and I.
[00:38:59] Speaker B: Think he had a few clients later.
[00:39:01] Speaker D: In his life, but he had Alzheimer's and all this stuff, so he kind of was not practicing a lot, but going into his office was really special. And as a kid, I can just go back and see all the items. And I was curious if there was ever anything that you noticed at the end of a visit or how he interacted with other family members that side that was so comforting to you, how he expressed it to others. And the families while he was there. Because I imagine that's what made him have birthday parties celebrating 30 years after he had passed away.
[00:39:39] Speaker G: I think there was a quiet comfort about him.
People felt at ease with him.
[00:39:47] Speaker F: And I do remember him.
[00:39:54] Speaker G: I remember those stories that were in the song of him telling someone, just.
[00:39:59] Speaker F: Make me a cake, or he was.
[00:40:02] Speaker G: In this world to help people.
[00:40:03] Speaker F: That's just who he was, and it.
[00:40:07] Speaker G: Was easy to be around him.
[00:40:09] Speaker D: I love that. Yeah, that is what that song I could listen to it a hundred times and know, be surprised and in it's. And it's a testament to Aaron's masterful storytelling. Thank you.
But when you have know, you say good bones of a right, so well, in this case, we have good bone structure for the content, the story, and then the story is crafted well, and then you have Aaron's guitar playing and melodic writing, and I just think it was a win win across the board. And I'm just honored to be a part of this journey to be able to meet you, because your family sounds amazing and contributed to making humans better on this planet.
[00:40:59] Speaker B: So I wanted to say thank you.
[00:41:01] Speaker D: For that wonderful human spirit from your whole family, from an outsider in this situation, I'm not related in any way, but it has changed my perspective and helped me become a better person just hearing the stories.
[00:41:16] Speaker F: Thank you.
[00:41:17] Speaker G: Yes, it is a beautiful song.
[00:41:19] Speaker F: Beautifully written.
[00:41:21] Speaker C: Thank you.
I know it can be a little what's the word?
When an outsider tries to tell your story, even whether it's a song or a newspaper article or even a eulogy, as I found over the last week with my father in law, just putting your story in the hands of somebody else, it's hard.
And I appreciate the grace with what you and Johnny and others in the family have shown in allowing me to get this story out there.
I hope that the song I think all of us in the Patterson lineage have taken some comfort in the spirit of he in telling these stories about him, that it sort of brings the old city to life again in a way that doesn't really exist now that we're all spread out. I'm in Philadelphia, you're in California, and yet we all talk about old Patterson, and there's your grandfather. So I hope the song keeps it going.
[00:42:35] Speaker F: Patterson was a special place, definitely.
[00:42:39] Speaker G: It was a nice place to grow up. The local candy a had a soda.
[00:42:45] Speaker F: Fountain and probably had a pharmacy in it.
[00:42:51] Speaker G: You'd go there on Halloween and they'd give you candy. All the other restaurants in the area, I mean, people still talk about what it was like taking the bus downtown when my father died. And the funeral was right at the Barnard temple, which was three blocks from the hospital. When we drove after the funeral, when we were driving to the cemetery, we.
[00:43:14] Speaker F: Drove past the hospital and the whole.
[00:43:17] Speaker G: Street was filled with nurses and doctors just standing outside paying their tribute.
[00:43:23] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:43:24] Speaker G: That's the kind of town it was.
[00:43:27] Speaker C: What year was that?
[00:43:29] Speaker G: Very moving.
That would have been I believe it was 1981 when my dad died.
[00:43:35] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:43:37] Speaker F: But that was the feeling.
[00:43:38] Speaker G: I mean, I would go over to the hospital all the time and have.
[00:43:41] Speaker F: Lunch there and the little scoop of tuna fish.
[00:43:49] Speaker G: Everyone was very welcoming, and it was a warm place.
[00:43:53] Speaker D: I had some experiences early on with one of my duos, Trotta and Ronstein, and we recorded, I think, at Patterson university's recording studio.
[00:44:05] Speaker C: What? William Patterson?
[00:44:07] Speaker D: I think so. I think that's where it was, was a really nice recording facility. And I don't know if we ever put anything out, but it know, driving there and New Jersey being as bustling and busy as it is to a Tucson, Arizona born desert dweller.
New York, I remember the first time was so busy. I'm like, oh, my, I never sleep.
Um, and then when I started to visit a bunch, I started to get used to seeing the small town aspects of kind of a big city region. I might call that whole area just because it's endless to my eyes, but when you get into the meeting people, everyone was so kind. And I know that's not related to the medical side, but just my memories of just the little bit that I've seen in Patterson has been special to me and developed friendships and all that stuff. So maybe that spirit carries on.
[00:45:18] Speaker G: Yeah.
[00:45:19] Speaker F: We're trying in this world today.
[00:45:22] Speaker G: We got to keep trying as much as we can.
[00:45:24] Speaker C: Okay, Sally, well, thank you for taking a moment out of this. Well, I don't know what it's like out your way, but it's a beautiful, cold day here in Philly.
[00:45:34] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. Between Cincinnati and Philly, we've definitely gone under zero in the last many last week.
[00:45:41] Speaker B: So you can almost say it's a.
[00:45:43] Speaker D: Balmy 40 degrees at present here in Cincinnati, because it is amazing not to be negative three degrees. Like it was Christmas eve and christmas. Christmas Eve.
[00:45:57] Speaker G: I'm glad you're past that.
[00:45:59] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:46:00] Speaker C: It's so generous of you to share your time and your stories with us anytime.
[00:46:06] Speaker G: About Doc.
[00:46:15] Speaker B: Once again, that was a ton of fun.
[00:46:17] Speaker D: It was.
[00:46:17] Speaker B: And we got to learn so much about Dr. Jolson and just a spectacular human being he was.
And he inspired me just through the stories. I wish I could have met him.
[00:46:30] Speaker A: And I want to send a shout out to the entire Jolson clan who have just been so supportive of this project. Johnny, Sally's cousin, and Amy sally grew up in Patterson with my mom, and it just sort of feels like we all kind of came from the same place.
[00:46:48] Speaker B: And I've personally never been a fan of holding people in high esteem when they're actually famous. Famous. I grew up with the famous Aunt Linda, but she was my Aunt Linda, and I've met famous people. And I personally don't ask for signatures. I don't think it's bad if you ask, but I just want to have a conversation. But I always feel like I'm meeting famous people when we interview someone like Sally, just because I've heard all about their story or their family through the music we're writing. This is as close to fame as I think I ever want to be. It's the best way to feel that. And we're going to play the song for you now.
[00:47:25] Speaker A: Here's the entirety of Dr. Jolson's bag.
[00:47:40] Speaker E: Calling Dr. Jolson. The baby's got the flu, we've nursed them with a bottle. Now there's nothing we can do. And since outside there's driving snow, we're stuck in here for sure.
I almost lost my hope. When there's a knock upon the door.
He smiles, but he stays bundled up. The coal stove is unlit. He walks up to the cradle and he opens up his kit. And soon the baby's quiet, he's all swaddled in a rag.
Whatever magic potion came from Dr. Jolson's.
[00:48:31] Speaker F: Bag.
[00:48:37] Speaker E: We'Re grateful, Dr. Jolson, for the effort and the time.
I'm sorry to report that we have barely got a dime. We just arrived in Patterson by Alexander's Falls.
You helped me birth this child, but you did not know us at all.
He smiles. It's not a problem.
I know that you can bake. Don't worry about the money. You can pay me with a cake. Then the three year old comes toddling out and says he wants a snack. Who'd have known that there was candy inside Dr. Jolson's bag?
That's so kind, Dr. Jolson, but my husband can't get hired he can't afford to heat the stove, much less get the dough to rise he says that you can take your time just get that baby well, I was once in your position and I was grateful for the help.
This child is the beginning. Our story's just begun. This child is a first generation Pattersonian.
It learned to serve his country and his community as well.
This child shall share the privileges of Hamilton himself.
He takes one last look at the baby and says he has to go.
And from my window, I can see him disappear into the snow.
What's that? Beneath the ashtray I see a splash of green from a dollar. Mr. Hamilton is staring back at me and a little vial of medicine is sitting by the crib with handwritten instructions telling us how much to give. As I shake my head and wonder as I pat the baby's back I'm grateful for the blessings inside Dr. Jolson's bag.
I'm grateful for the blessings inside Dr. Jolson's bag.
[00:51:36] Speaker B: So good. I'm glad we got to listen.
[00:51:38] Speaker A: I'm glad we did that.
[00:51:40] Speaker B: So you've been listening to the Nathan's.
[00:51:45] Speaker A: And Roncast with Aaron nathan's? It's Nathan's with an S at the end. And Michael G.
Ron stat. Ron Stat. His name is not Ron Cast. It's ron stat.
[00:51:58] Speaker B: I have a friend who has a cat named Michael Ron Cat.
[00:52:02] Speaker C: Really? Yeah.
[00:52:02] Speaker A: He named his cat after you.
[00:52:04] Speaker B: Somehow the nickname became Michael roncat. When I hear of Nathan and Ron Cast, I just think ron cat. So meow.
[00:52:13] Speaker A: Well, that's great. There's no greater honor than having somebody name their pet after you.
[00:52:22] Speaker B: You know what? Thank you, Dave Crittle, for naming your cat after me. Even if you didn't plan it, I feel honored.
[00:52:28] Speaker A: That being said, I do have a gerbil named Phil Henry, so I hope you're not know.
[00:52:33] Speaker B: Last time I asked you if you had any words of wisdom or a word of wisdom.
[00:52:39] Speaker A: I have a word of wisdom.
[00:52:41] Speaker B: Okay. What is luthier?
OOH, I like that.
[00:52:47] Speaker A: Yes. What's your word of wisdom?
[00:52:52] Speaker B: This is a tough one.
I want to be clever here, but I want to be off the cuff too.
[00:52:58] Speaker A: Don't say a lutheist. You'll one up me.
[00:53:00] Speaker B: No, I don't even know what a lutheist is.
[00:53:03] Speaker A: Well, it's one more than a Luther.
[00:53:05] Speaker B: Oh, okay. I have a word for you.
[00:53:07] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:53:08] Speaker D: Smoothio.
[00:53:10] Speaker A: I grew up listening to Smoothio.
[00:53:12] Speaker B: Exactly. It's a good brand of music. It actually means ironing in Welsh. So there you go. That's one of my favorite Welsh words, because I'm learning it. I don't know if that's wisdom, but I like the word.
[00:53:23] Speaker A: So, luther and Smoothio.
[00:53:26] Speaker B: Peace out.
[00:53:27] Speaker A: Peace.
[00:53:40] Speaker B: Croons itself to rest.
A soft wind bends the slender.
