All about "Esperanza," Aaron & Michael's new album

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. I'm Aaron Nathens. [00:00:08] Speaker B: And I'm Michael Ronstadt. [00:00:10] Speaker A: And you're listening to Nathan's and Ron. You're doing that on purpose, aren't you? Yeah. [00:00:19] Speaker B: At this point, it's just not. [00:00:21] Speaker A: I see what you're doing. Oh. You know, all the other people are going to be tuning into this podcast, and they're going to be turned off right away by just our lack of. [00:00:33] Speaker B: For the first time, they're like, what is this? I don't understand what is wrong with [00:00:38] Speaker A: these people, But I'll tell you what's right with these people is that we have a new album. [00:00:42] Speaker B: Aaron, you know about this album as much as I do, but I feel like we're trying to instill some stories, but also some hope. And we have our obligatory one cover, which I think you'll really enjoy. It's a hopeful album. [00:00:58] Speaker A: It is. [00:00:59] Speaker B: And that's at least we're trying to lean towards that. We're pulling from as much hope as we can. Yes. [00:01:05] Speaker A: How do you pronounce the title? [00:01:07] Speaker B: Esperanza. [00:01:09] Speaker A: Yeah, it's Spanish for hope. [00:01:11] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's. Aaron, you suggested the title, and I was like, I like that. You know, one of the songs that I think I wrote last minute called Dust and Sunbeams, this older gentleman sitting on a porch watching a younger person just do the rat race, the, you know, the let's. Let's keep going and trying to make it, and the falling on their face and getting back up, and it's a sentiment that they're like, you know, I can instill some wisdom here, but also, you know, let that person just kind of figure it out. Because part of what makes us feel like we understand the world, or at least we can get through it a little better, is experiencing a bunch of not so fun things, which teach us a lot of lessons. So the Dust and Sunbeams, that last track, I'm actually very proud of that because I think it sums up kind of how I feel when I'm playing open mics and hearing a bunch of people 20 years younger than me, 25, 30 years younger than me going, you know, just trying to do it. And I remember that feeling. [00:02:24] Speaker C: Give them a chance to step, slip and roam Smell the dried roses left on the stone [00:02:35] Speaker B: Give them a chance to step, slip and roam Smell the dried roses left on the stone. You know, that's how we finish our album. And. And, Aaron, you've got a song called Thankful. Anyway. [00:02:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I do most of my songwriting during February, and so I had this really, really ambitious, high concept song idea about Yoda from Star Wars. And, you know, I worked on this with you, Michael, and the song Yoda was able to make the Millennium Falcon fly with his mind, but I could not make that song fly with my mind. And so after I kind of sat down and just sort of exhaled, and it's like, okay, what's next? And I just went completely in the opposite direction and just started writing things that I was thankful for, despite the fact that this was February 2025, and I wasn't feeling particularly thankful for anything. [00:03:49] Speaker C: I am thankful for the spring greens [00:03:52] Speaker A: and baby blues in the month of [00:03:55] Speaker C: May I am thankful for my family and the last good book Red for good teeth, a good job and a roof over my head. [00:04:06] Speaker A: It's a list song. [00:04:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Some of the things you listed are just almost like the comfort food of life. You have some food items too, you know, But. But, like, there's that idea of comfort. There's something to a long walk on the beach, which is not something you listed. But it's like, to me, like, when people say, oh, I love long walks on the beach afternoons. Yeah, yeah. Those are the things that we all can relate to in some way. In fact, after we record this episode, I'm gonna go on a long walk to Kennedy Heights park and do, like, a mile or so. A friend of mine said that if you're feeling down, take a walk or take a shower, you know, you might come out of it, you know, feeling a little more positive. And it's. And it's true. It's true. One of those things, and I feel like thankful anyway, is a song that makes you feel like you took a good walk or took a nice shower, you know, so it's. And then, you know, some other songs. Can we talk about the COVID or do we want to just let people. [00:05:10] Speaker A: Sure, we can talk about the. I don't. [00:05:12] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. The COVID is not very positive because Mr. Spaceman gets left in space. It's called Space Oddity. It's a David Bowie tune you may have heard of. [00:05:28] Speaker C: Ground control to major tom. Ground control to major tom. Take your protein pills and put your helmet on Ground control to make. [00:05:51] Speaker B: We. We did this cover because I had done it with one of my trios. I was like, oh, yeah, we could do this one. And then we came up with a almost flamenco leaning thing. And then Serenity Fisher came in and we showcased at Nerfa at the Stone [00:06:08] Speaker A: Pony's original focal lines. [00:06:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:06:10] Speaker A: The Stone Pony. [00:06:11] Speaker B: The Stone Pony. It was crazy. There is a video of that, but. Go search. You'll find it. But basically, we played at the Stone Pony, and we brought my married two, Serenity Fisher in, and she played keyboard and sang harmonies, and we. I felt like we knocked it out of the park. People loved it. And I just think it's such a fun tune ever since I started singing it years and years ago. The key signature that we chose for this version really worked out nicely, and I just think it takes you out into space and we got to be weird and sound effect like, because that's what Aaron and I do a lot of times. So, yeah. We also talk about the horrors inside Dr. Shockley's mind and how when he spoke his mind, that may have been his greatest trick, even though he possibly contributed to our society in big ways. And, Aaron, that song is. I love that song. You know, it's. It's a history lesson that we all should learn, but we don't want to learn. [00:07:19] Speaker C: Long nights by the microscope he pulled a rabbit from my coat but no prank was quite as slick as Dr. Shockley's greatest trick. [00:07:42] Speaker A: You know, I remember there being this ethical question that somebody posed when I was in high school that if. If there was some awful medical test, some really useful knowledge that was gleaned by unethical means, do you use that knowledge or do you just act like it. [00:08:02] Speaker B: It. [00:08:03] Speaker A: It was unusable? Well, certainly our society has answered that, because the very device that I'm talking to you on right now is filled with transistors, and they were created by a man named William Shockley, who. He was not a good man, and he did some awful things late in his life, but we certainly have not turned our back on his discoveries, which have. If you pick up your smartphone, you've got hundreds of little transistors in there. So the song is just about [00:08:41] Speaker B: how [00:08:42] Speaker A: a bad man could succeed in the business world, succeed in the science world, and yet basically become completely erased in the history books because of some other bad things that he did at the end of his life. [00:09:03] Speaker B: You can't say, I'm not going to buy anything with a transistor. You won't even be able to pay your bills. So there you go. [00:09:09] Speaker A: Right? [00:09:10] Speaker B: So it's. Yeah, those ethical questions. I mean, maybe it's the ultimate. Finding the silver lining in a bad situation. You know, you go through some hardships and. Yeah. So I think that that song's an interesting one on many, many levels. And it's also a great song because Aaron Nathans Wrote it. [00:09:31] Speaker A: Thank you. Well, let's talk about a great song that you wrote. How do you pronounce this? La Madrugada tu. [00:09:39] Speaker B: That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Is a Tucson sunrise. [00:10:05] Speaker C: Here we go through the mountains Small [00:10:08] Speaker B: breeze in the white sands Ocean life from long ago Countless ancient peaks thousands of years. I wrote this lyric in 2014. Initially, I was driving towards I25, I think, going by White Sands national monuments, looking at the mountains. And here we go through the mountains, and those are the mountains I was seeing. And the song, the lyrics kind of were talking about how I was, you know, wanting a tortilla, really. You know, I just wanted, like, good Mexican food and my friends, and so I finally started to get it refined. I wrote a few different settings of it over the years. Probably like 10 different settings. I even had, like a very rock and roll thing that I worked out when we were doing a up in Massachusetts on the coast. And it was really like, I worked out some stuff and then I finally. I went on the road, did shared some shows with Tishi no Hosa, and I realized I've got it. It's been in my back pocket all along. A simple Mexican waltz is going to do. And Tishy no Hosa is the ultimate songwriter. It's so simple, but interesting. You know, I love music that gives you, like, 90% predictable and then 10% unpredictable. And she kind of like brings the unpredictable to 5%, but that 5% is magic. So my goal with the song was to write a waltz. And I don't know how a good old Mexican waltz came out of me, but it did. And it's called Amadrugada Tuxonense. It's in English and Spanish and, you know, we put it on the album and through a few different permutations, and 12 years later we have it. So I hope you enjoy that one. [00:12:14] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a lovely, lovely song. We got the title of the album from this song. What is that line at the end of the song? [00:12:22] Speaker B: Well, in the end of the last verse, you know, I talk about, you know, how I would like to eat tortillas made of flour, salt, and love and heart. And then I say, we can drink, we have beverages with our people. And then we finish with love, hope and truth. And the song kind of always finishes with truth because I just. I feel like there's a lot of not true things being thrown out there, and I just want to be in an honest surrounding, you know, and truth in all the ways, you know, not just in words, but just in emotions. Genuine people I want to be around genuine hearts, you know, so that. That's kind of what I was doing with the song. [00:13:14] Speaker A: But, yeah, yeah. Love, hope and truth. I mean, that's part of why I was drawn to that line as a. Maybe a summation of our album, because you draw a Venn diagram of these three things. Love, hope, and truth. And if you're being truthful with somebody, that's not necessarily an act of love, if you're being completely honest about something that you don't like about them, or that maybe if you open your eyes to the truth of the world we're living in, that it's a bit of a cruel world. And that's. There's really not a lot of hope there. You can have hope, but it's in spite of the truth that you have love. And you have that because you love somebody, you have hope for them, but it's not because of what you're seeing, it's because of something that you can't see. [00:14:10] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And sometimes, as songwriters will write something and you look back and you go, oh, yeah. And you need someone like Aaron Nathan's to point out, that's really interesting. And it came out of my brain. I don't know how it did, but, you know, it did. So it's like, I think sometimes our minds create these things. And when I. When I read about Sting doing songwriting, he said that he. He doesn't know what it means till after he writes it. And. And that kind of helped me out as a young songwriter, just in my late 20s, going, okay, cool, so I'll just keep writing and then I'll figure out what it means, you know. [00:14:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:50] Speaker B: And the songs that make the playlist at your shows are the ones that mean something to you. So, like, the songs that had no story to tell, whether it was like, there was no backstory or if it didn't have a story, like, it could have no story. But I liked being able to talk about where the song came from. And if the song was just, like, total nonsense with just. I'm like, why would someone want to like those? Just. [00:15:15] Speaker A: We have one of those on the album, too. [00:15:18] Speaker B: We. What? We do. We do. And we. Well, we hope that doesn't make the set list in 10 years. No, it will, actually. I really like the total nonsense one because it's very much the banter Aaron and I have developed over the years. Unintentionally. You know, we didn't say we're going to develop. We think we're funny banter and have a back and forth about. No, this banter, it gets chuckles out of our audience and we like it. And this one song is kind of [00:15:52] Speaker A: the [00:15:55] Speaker B: child of that banter in a way. [00:15:57] Speaker A: Yeah. We had a song on our last album called 12 Tone Girl in which we have a little bit of banter back and forth. And so we basically made a little space on this album because you can't really. I mean, that was such a high concept song that there's really no way to sort of repeat that experience in a different song. And I'm not sure you would want to, but we kind of approached this song with the idea that this is going to be just us talking to each other. And we didn't really know about what until kind of late in the game. And I showed up at your house to start recording in the middle of the night on a Thursday, and it's like 11pm and we recorded this between like 11 and 3am so you could tell that it's the middle of the night. And we just. There are certain things in this world that you're not supposed to do and that you're not supposed to talk about. Things that even, you know, you hear like the crudest language out there and it's no longer shocking. But this is shocking. [00:17:00] Speaker B: Yes. [00:17:01] Speaker A: This is truly. This song finds something that is non verboten and we verboat it. [00:17:08] Speaker B: Consider yourself warned. Hey, Aaron. [00:17:11] Speaker A: Hey, Michael. [00:17:13] Speaker B: I just saw Empire Strikes Back. [00:17:17] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I've been meaning to see that. [00:17:19] Speaker B: Did you know that Darth Vader is Luke's father? [00:17:23] Speaker A: What? [00:17:24] Speaker B: What a surprise. I didn't see that one coming. [00:17:26] Speaker A: You ruined it. Everyone's been telling me I need to see it and now it's spoiled. [00:17:31] Speaker B: Sorry. [00:17:32] Speaker A: I'm gonna get you for that. [00:17:34] Speaker B: No, really. And really. And don't blame us because it was after midnight and nothing good happens after midnight, but we put it on the album for you, so there you go. And we also have another song. We won't name that song. I don't want to. Surprise. I don't want to spoil that. But the track before that is called Don't Waste My Time. [00:17:58] Speaker A: That's a bit of a groundbreaking song for us. [00:18:00] Speaker B: Yeah. I believe you have a line in there, Aaron, that we put in there that you swore you would never write. [00:18:10] Speaker A: Well, right? Yeah. I use the. Can I say this on the radio? I use the word baby. But what's so groundbreaking about this song is everything that I've ever written has started with kind of words first or at least the idea of the song, the concept first. But we talked. That song was actually born out of a conversation that we had with the songwriter James Keelahan on this podcast that we asked how he created Cold Missouri Waters, his masterpiece. And he said, well, we just recorded the music in the studio, and then I went home and wrote the words to match what was already there. So you and I, this was like the first song that we ever wrote in the studio in real time. Music first. [00:18:57] Speaker C: Don't pay me your advance Baby, I'll be fine don't waste my time don't waste my time don't waste my time [00:19:15] Speaker B: yeah, yeah and in fact, the track we Don't We Shall Not Talk about was Music first also. So we have two of them that are very music first oriented as songwriters. We. Aaron, I've done more of this than you probably, in the sense of setting or having, like, working with someone who's just a lyricist, I'm guessing. And there's a gentleman I work with named Z Malls. And it's interesting because I'll send him music and he will write a lyric that fits exactly to what I sent him. And he loves the challenge. And then he does the opposite. He sends me lyrics and I write music that fits the lyrics. And it's really interesting when you put yourself in a very specific box and you're like, we're not gonna change the format because we like the musical format, but we're going to write lyrics around this. And a lot of times the lyrics dictate the music. But when you're trying to do it the opposite, any. Anything that confines you in your creativity can, you know, basically more creativity will bloom out of that. Like when. When I say I'm gonna write a song or a jazz chart. I've written a number of jazz tunes. I say I'm gonna try to prevent weird Michael Ronstadt ness coming out of it. And I wrote a really beautiful ballad called under the Green Moonlight. That's scary enough. Green moonlight. But, you know. But it's a beautiful ballad and I've recorded it and put it out there. And I think it's like, it's one of those things, like, if I hadn't confined myself to 16 bar sections, it would have never happened. So I think we. We figured out a. It's a fun jam. There's. There's an electric guitar in there. That's nothing new at this point, because if you listen to our last album, we broke out with some electric guitar jam band material at the end of 12 tone, so we figured we might as well keep carrying it on. And I think we air out some. I don't know, air out some grievances with Midnight Sun. For me, I'm kind of talking about there's stuff going on and it's. It's kind of somber and. And I'm, you know, just stating, like, the. The. The people in the world who seem to be running it make me depressed sometimes, and I feel sad. And so that song is very much, you know, I. Maybe I'm craving sunlight all the time just to keep me up. Yeah. And then Aaron's got a song called I Wish I Cared Less. And I just think every one of us have felt that way at some point. If we are, I feel like especially anyone who's got any moment of empathy going on and trying to be the peacemaker, you know, just getting along. Right. I wish I cared less. Is this song for you? [00:22:11] Speaker C: I wish I felt a little less compassion. I wish that I could feel a little less. I never could stop being Mr. Nice Guy. Kindness may be the death of me yet I wish my skin could be a little thicker. I wish I didn't read the bad reviews. [00:22:34] Speaker A: By the way, I play mandolin on that for the first time. [00:22:37] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. Yeah. This is groundbreaking. This is even more groundbreaking than the electric guitar. Although Aaron gets an electric guitar solo on Dust and Sunbeams, he always gets an electric guitar solo on our albums. The last, last few, like. So this will be the third one with an electric guitar solo by Aaron Nathans. I always just say, turn him loose. Him. Like, it comes up with the best melodies. This one, we went crazy. I added some, like, octave things and crazy delays, and it's. It's wild. [00:23:04] Speaker A: So, yeah, it is giving. Having me do an electric guitar solo is like having Michael pinch it in a baseball game. It's. It's just not. It's. It's like writing with my left hand. [00:23:15] Speaker B: How do you know that I'm not good at doing. Whatever that activity you talked about? [00:23:20] Speaker A: I'm sure you'd be great at it if you poured your heart. [00:23:22] Speaker B: I don't even know. What was that like? I don't even know what I'd have to ask. I have questions about. [00:23:26] Speaker A: It's just getting up in the middle of a game and batting. [00:23:30] Speaker B: Okay. Oh, God. I figured, you know what? You know, me in sports, we. We. We kind of. I understand enough, but not enough also. So. And so Aaron has educated. He's educated me much. [00:23:46] Speaker A: I'd like to end this episode by talking about that word play. Because that's really what this album is. You know, we decided that we were gonna do this album differently. Every album that we do is different from the last one. But I think if you follow our trajectory from albums one to four, it becomes progressively more polished, maybe. And this album isn't necessarily more polished, although it's got a great sound. But I think what we were going for on this one was a real DIY flavor that we. I mean, you basically ran the sessions and we didn't have a. I mean, the producer was basically Michael, and with me kind of looking over his shoulder and throwing, [00:24:37] Speaker B: you know, and I've been producing and recording and mixing for people and for myself for a long time. And it's a hat that I haven't really worn for the Aaron Nathan's and Michael Ronstadt brand, in a way. And our previous producer was moving on to doing some video stuff, you know, so he was building other skills he wanted to do. And so we just started it and I was really excited that Aaron liked the mixes that I came up with. And he said, hey, this is sounding really good. I'm like, okay, that's checked one box. Because you never know in my journey as a producer and mix engineer. And I do some mastering too. It kind of justifies my journey in a way. And we hope that the quality of this album is playful. Like we're talking about that, and we hope that, that. That playfulness is. You know, I like the idea of rough around the edges. We had a really bad interview from UK Americana, but we got one of our best quotes and. But one of the things they complained about was that it was too polished. And so we worked on making the album wars. Yeah, take this. UK Americana, not so polished. But I do think, you know, we. We do aim to like, be polished, but it's. Yeah, we, we, we. It kind of has the energy of our first two albums, which we recorded in many locations, especially the second one, our sophomore album was recorded in Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Cincinnati, Brooklyn. Brooklyn, all over the place. And I was always the gathering spot. And then I would send it off to Phil for mixing that one. [00:26:26] Speaker A: And. [00:26:26] Speaker B: And so it's. Yeah, it was. It was kind of a pleasure to. To be able to mix these or make our demos. Right. Because I was always practice demos and stuff. And then that was mixed progress. So. [00:26:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, Aaron, it's a great album. I've listened to it a bunch and can't wait to share it with, with all of you. So we, you know, keep. Hold on to that. Joy, hold on to that hope. Esperanza. [00:26:54] Speaker B: Esperanza? Yeah. You know, and I think it's such a beautiful word, Esperanza. You know, it's like, it's, you know, there's some words in every language that you're just like, why. Why would you have that word for that? You know, like, that's an ugly, awful sounding word. And then some words are very beautiful, but they mean awful things. Esperanza is one of those words that just wins on every level. So we, we. We want that to be. And throughout this episode, you may have heard little snippets of audio as we talked about tracks and hope you enjoyed that and hope that wet your appetite just enough to be able to come to our album release events. You know, like, we might have, you know, depending on when you're hearing this, it may have happened or there's more shows, but we would love to see you in the audience. If you want to buy a CD and use it as a coaster and then listen to it on Spotify, we're fine with that. One of the things that I love is when people do choose to engage and say something, something they liked or something that motivated them, it does our hearts good to know that we helped you in your daily life because sometimes our music will live rent free in your life. And if it helps get you through the day, I think that means a lot to us. And there's a lot of music that helps get me through the day and it'll encourage me to reach out to those artists to tell them that it really makes my life better. So. And then, Aaron, you've got your. On the horizon. You've got your solo album coming out recorded by. [00:28:38] Speaker A: I like the Story for Another Day, [00:28:40] Speaker B: but, you know, Joe Jenks is producing it and there might be some cello on there from me, but I sure hope so. You never know where the, where the creative ideas are going to go. So, like, what I do know is I really love Aaron's. His EP that he did with Phil Henry years ago that has lived rent free in my life for many, many years. And it's just got some great material on there. So I'm excited to hear your next solo effort first. In about 20 years, he said. [00:29:10] Speaker A: 21. [00:29:11] Speaker B: 21 years. Yeah. So your lack of solo albums reached the point where they could drink. [00:29:17] Speaker A: Yes, yes. [00:29:18] Speaker B: And so we need to bring it back to its infancy, so. Yeah, yeah. So, no, and I know this is not the place for the solo album talk, but I just want to say that it's. I'm really looking forward to it. Thanks. [00:29:31] Speaker A: Thank you. You've been very generous. [00:29:33] Speaker B: Some of us have a lot of stuff going on, but, yeah, this is. This is a good episode to. To share our album with you. So. [00:29:40] Speaker A: Yeah. So please check it out. Go to nathans and ronstadt.com and it'll show you how you can. How you can listen to this album. And for now, I think we're signing off. [00:29:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And please, please book us at anything you want. Go to our website, send us a note. If you want to hear us play in person. We're always willing to hear from you. [00:30:02] Speaker A: So we will play at your exorcism. [00:30:05] Speaker B: That's right. From exorcisms to hair salons, we will be there. [00:30:10] Speaker A: Yes, that's right. [00:30:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:11] Speaker A: Okay, everybody. [00:30:12] Speaker B: Okay. [00:30:13] Speaker A: Peace. [00:30:13] Speaker B: Peace.